November 13, 2019
Charlie Kirk has been broken.
At the University of Florida on Tuesday, the Turning Point USA head apologized to the crowd for saying that “green cards should be stapled to diplomas.” This was after he was called out by us, by Michelle Malkin and by Tucker Carlson.
He then went on to get constantly booed.
And then get mass-groyped by an army of Groypers.
He said he wanted a leftist line and a rightist line, but all of the questions other than two were from Groypers.
It was a glorious thing.
It was raucous. People were just yelling whatever. They were at points trying to pull people out, but it was just that almost all of the crowd was our guys.
One thing I will tell you is that they made a smart move by shutting down the video and then telling people they can’t record anything. The stream guy had to sit in the back and discreetly record. He was lucky and did a good job – at least you could hear it, unlike some of the Crenshaw stuff last week – but still, it is hardly ideal to not be able to see the questioners like we could in the original videos.
Basically, shutting down video was the one smart thing that these people did. And I think that pretty much the days of high quality video being provided by people who are getting groyped is over. This ended up making about as much sense as Moslems streaming themselves raping white women.
Or Black Lives Matter streaming themselves kidnapping and torturing an autistic white kid.
Just really bad optics.
So we’ll need to figure out some situation to this moving forward.
It’s just not the same writing up the questions without seeing the people asking them. Because the asking of the questions is in itself an art. We need to look into trying to get press passes or something.
Anyway, as is my tradition, I will type up the questions, as they were asked. Charlie Kirk had clearly been coached – I assume by Ben Shapiro – and gave really weird, rambling answers, that caused me and everyone else to slip into boredom mode. But the questions were asked, yet again, and yet again, none of them were answered.
1.) Why Would Anyone Support Your Brown Flood Agenda, Charlie?
A true *turning point* in the decades-long battle between gatekeepers and gate-smashers on the Right has been reached. I’m so glad I stuck it out long enough to witness it. 🔥 https://t.co/ECsCk8PNJj
— Michelle Malkin (@michellemalkin) November 13, 2019
First question off the bat was perfectly worded.
Groyper: I’m an engineering student here and it puzzles me that an organization that claims to be in my best interests and America First pushing and advocating for bringing in “the best and the brightest,” which translates into hordes of legal STEM workers. Anyone who understands supply and demand will know that if you increase the number of STEM workers in an area, it creates havoc on the wages and employment of STEM workers already in that area.
So why should I, Charlie Kirk, and other STEM students in the room, continue to get excited for conservative movements who wish to replace us at the workplace before we even get there? In other words, what can your brand of conservatism offer American graduates, besides directions to the unemployment line?
Charlie Kirk: So can I ask you a question? Do you think there will be some immigrants coming in?
Groyper: There should be no immigrants coming in.
Kirk: Do you think realistically there will be some immigrants coming in?
Groyper: Well of course, because of people like you.
Kirk: I did say that I support the RAISE Act, do you support that?
Groyper: What’s that? Explain it to me.
Kirk: What the President of the United States supports for immigration. So are you a Trump supporter?
Groyper: Of course I am.
Kirk: So you support the President’s immigration plan, so we agree on that. You want to end birthright citizenship –
Groyper: I don’t support his immigration plan.
Kirk: Okay, well, I do.
It went on for a while, back and forth, but devolved into word games by Kirk.
This was a big game he did this time – this “oh if you are a Trump supporter you must support this program to flood you with Indians.” That was obviously a Shapiro technique – “if you support Trump that means you support everything he ever said and that means you support being buried in genetic waste.”
2.) A Jew for America?
The next question of relevance was from an alleged “based Jew.”
He was dressed up like a Bernie supporter as a disguise I guess, with a Bernie yarmulke, and I actually thought he was a fake Jew. But he was a real Jew.
I want to say first, thank you for being a free speech absolutist, you’ve said constantly that you will engage anyone on anything, and I really hope that you won’t interrupt and listen to the whole question. … Mr. Kirk, I am a proud American Jew, and I want to say though that I am not a socialist, okay, and in the last couple weeks, we’ve seen America First Christians and Catholics smeared, these are the same stock of people who built this country.
Over the last couple of weeks, conservative gatekeepers like yourself have smeared them as racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic, this is not the truth, these are leftist dog whistle tactics. You and your organization push for the LGBT agenda and you push for mass immigration. Now I appreciate you coming back and taking back the thing about stapling green cards to diplomas. I think you got a lot of pushback for this, Tucker Carlson addressed this, Michelle Malkin addressed this, but you did not address the EB-5 visas, which you called for unlimited. So my question is, given all this, why should we trust you to be a leader in the conservative movement over someone who values America First like Nick Fuentes?
Charlie’s answer was just blah blah blah. Rambling nonsense. Purposeful deflection.
This Jew tweeted at Nick.
— Jew Groyper (@americafirstjew) November 13, 2019
I’m just going to tell you right now: I do not like or trust Jews, I do not believe there is any situation where a Jew should be trusted.
If he wants to ask a funny question, okay, whatever. But you cannot trust these people and you should not get involved with them.
I don’t mind the occasional “nonwhite ally,” but I don’t want Jews. Please don’t bring out the Jews.
After the Jew, what sounded like a gay black guy asked a question about breaking up social media companies. He didn’t sound like our guy. Charlie went on a rant about how social media companies shouldn’t be regulated because the government should never do anything.
This is the typical argument from these mainstream conservative shills. As I’ve explained many times, they actually benefit from the censorship so they have no reason to oppose it. Charlie Kirk can talk about people getting censored because he hasn’t been censored. And he can say “yeah but the government is always bad though, so corporations can violate your Constitutional rights,” because it costs him nothing to hold that position.
After that, a girl said that she’d been moved to the front of the line by the staff because she is a girl, and so she wasn’t asking her prepared question, and was instead asking why they did that. She then tried to ask why so many people were censored. It was a noble endeavor, but Charlie shouted her down.
This shout them down technique is something he will do whenever he thinks he can get away with it. And actually, he tries it out on everyone. But of course it is more likely to work on a woman.
But she did put him on the spot about rearranging the line, which was good, because some people don’t know that is happening.
3.) Immigrants Don’t Believe in American Values, Charlie
This was Charlie’s first try at the “you’re cynical” talking point.
You’ve said what kind of immigrant you want, but you haven’t answered the question of the consequences of immigration, particularly mass immigration. We know from Pew Research that the majority of legal immigrants in the US do not support the First or Second Amendment. Given that this is true, how can we, as conservatives, support bringing in thousands if not millions of immigrants and try to conserve American values?
Charlie admitted that Virginia turning blue was a result of immigration. Then he claimed that he wasn’t cynical, and that he doesn’t believe demographics are destiny, and that anyone can be convinced of anything.
4.) Non-Economic Arguments?
I’d wager that most people in this room weren’t blessed with family connections netting them a six figure salary and direct connections to the President and his family. For those of us who aren’t going to be living in gated communities, sequestered away from the degradation of the middle class and the gleeful destruction of the middle class and the degradation of everything this country used to hold dear, immigration is not just a question of what bolsters the GDP. An immigration stand based on economics is quite literally selling out your fellow Americans. Do you have any case for legal immigration in a time when your own countrymen are suffering that does not stem from your own economic self service?
Charlie skipped around and started saying that he was against immigration because the schools are full.
Then he again hid behind support of Trump, supporting the insane RAISE Act AKA the “Raise Up the Indians to American Citizens Act.”
He rambled for a long time, to the point where the audience had forgotten the question, then started saying the most important thing is to build a wall.
That isn’t the most important thing, by the way. The only reason a wall would be any benefit at all is that deportation has become effectively illegal, otherwise there would be no need at all for a wall with Mexico. So the laws that make deportation illegal, the laws that make hiring and renting to illegal aliens legal – these are more important than building a wall.
Also more important than building a wall is dealing with the insane legal immigration program, that is bringing in millions of people who will become citizens.
Also, it’s probably more important to simply remove birthright citizenship.
Anyway – we’re not building a wall, so we should really just stop talking about it, I think.
Still ostensibly answering the question about his economic agenda, Charlie Kirk then said the US military should invade Mexico.
As much as I might agree with that, this rambling was obviously a gigantic distraction technique. He never addressed the question at all.
After that – before the next question – the guest went on a rant about how he loves gays and how there is nothing in Christianity that says people can know how God feels about gays.
I’m not sure he knows the Bible exists?
His name is Grant Allen and he actually has good optics, and seemed to not be on board with Charlie’s whole thing.
I’m thinking maybe he will do some wondering about what he was doing up on stage advocating for homosexuality with this weird man.
5.) What is Your Agenda, Charlie?
This was a great one.
Given that the overwhelming economic benefits of migrants go to the migrants themselves, migrants have a negative fiscal impact on the country, costing over $100,000 per immigrant over their lifespan. Low skill working migrants lower wages, which forces women into the workplace and destroys the family unit, high skill migrant workers prevent Americans who graduated from American universities from getting good jobs in their learned fields.
All of this being backed up by leading immigration economists like George Borjas and others, is the reason why you continue to push mass migration just because your donors like paying lower wages to foreigners at the detriment of middle class Americans who voted for Trump?
Charlie did his whole “rambling man” thing again, and said that actually, he’s against immigration.
It was pretty weird.
The whole time throughout this, he was clearly functioning differently. He was letting people talk and not attacking them in the insane way he was before.
He brought up another new talking point after this question: he told the guy that really, it doesn’t matter what he supports because he’s not a Congressman, and people should be going and talking to Congressmen instead of him.
It’s like yo, dude, you are here shilling for this and trying to influence you people to believe this bullshit. You need to explain yourself.
He just kept saying he supports the president and the RAISE Act.
6.) When are These Other Groups Gonna Start Voting Republican?
Another good one.
If you look at the voting breakdown for 2016, white Americans voted 58% for Republicans … white American millennials voted majority Republican. If you look at every other age range of black and Hispanic voters, they all went Democrat. So my question to you is this: when are these other groups gonna start voting republican?
“Very fair point…” says Charlie Kirk before pushing the “Cubans are the same as Mexicans and Hondurans” lie.
This is just retarded.
Castro sent all the anti-communist Cubans to Miami, and they were mostly white.
He then did a slightly different “hide behind Trump” thing where he got the guy to say he thinks Trump is wrong that he can win the Latino vote, and Charlie said “okay well, I think Trump is right, so thank you very much.”
The whole logic to all of his answers revolved around “oh but I support Trump, and he believes in infinity niggers burying you. I don’t know about the campaign promises, I never heard those before, but definitely now, he wants you to be swamped in Indians.”
I’m sure it was a Shapiro talking point.
7.) Will Discrimination Against White People Slow Down When We’re a Minority?
Cuban! Right on cue!
I am a Cuban American, and I am white, I’m not “Hispanic.” I just want to ask, do you think white people are being unfairly treated in this country with Affirmative Action and things like that, and do you think that’s going to get better or worse as we become a minority?
Charlie did say “affirmative action is racist against Asian Americans and it’s racist against white people.”
I was a bit surprised by that.
But then he said:
Some people who have come to some of our events previously – and I don’t know if any of them are here – use the kind of white privilege lie and the affirmative action policies as an excuse to create a fringe white identitarian movement. That is evil, and that is wrong.
(Biggest boos of the night)
It is evil and it is wrong to create a white identitarian movement. The likes of which believe that we are going to solve division in our country, where the saying of our country is under the Latin phrase E. Pluribus Unum, by creating some sort of ethnonationalist group, is evil and incorrect.
An accompanying statement was released, also using the word “evil.” Like you know – evil like vampires or werewolves or whatever. I guess.
1) Charlie Kirk said identitarianism, not white nationalism, and he was condemning people for even acknowledging white identity
2) The only thing "clear as day" is that TPUSA does not stand for America First. https://t.co/1NaAz3hTph
— Scott Greer (@ScottMGreer) November 13, 2019
He didn’t elaborate but I sure do hope that someone goes tonight and asks him why it is that the First Congress of the United States passed a naturalization law in 1790 limiting citizenship to “white people of good character.” This was the government that the Founding Fathers were a part of. Were they evil, I wonder?
Was Thomas Jefferson evil?
He said in Notes on the State of Virginia that the blacks had to be sent back, and America be made a pure white country, or there would be a race war in which one or the other race would be exterminated. He also said they were stupid like animals.
Deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites; ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained; new provocations; the real distinctions which nature has made … will divide us into parties, and produce convulsions which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race. To these objections, which are political, may be added others, which are physical and moral. The first difference which strikes us is that of colour. … They have less hair on the face and body. They secrete less by the kidnies, and more by the glands of the skin, which gives them a very strong and disagreeable odour. This greater degree of transpiration renders them more tolerant of heat, and less so of cold, than the whites. Comparing them by their faculties of memory, reason, and imagination, it appears to me that in memory they are equal to the whites; in reason much inferior, as I think one could scarcely be found capable of tracing and comprehending the investigations of Euclid: and that in imagination they are dull, tasteless, and anomalous.
Who is the real evil monster, Charlie?
We white people who think we should have a country, like every other race?
Or you, who think we should be overwhelmed and destroyed?
8.) Why is Israel the Only Thing Republicans Seem to Care About?
Let’s talk about Israel.
Groyper: My family and I have watched for decades as Republicans have made continued concessions without any gains, over time they only lose, and they never make any steps forward. For example: Republicans today have all but abandoned the traditional American values that defined the party years ago. Along the same lines, decades ago Republicans promised that open immigration policy would not cause demographic shift. They were lying. It is evident today that open immigration policy does cause demographic shift. The only Republicans seem to stand by is an unwavering devotion to Israel, which is shrouded in some mysticism that peons such as myself can’t seem to understand. My question for you is how should we reverse the trend of concessions by the Republican Party?
Charlie Kirk: Okay so first thank you for being here. Can I ask you a question? Are you a supporter of President Trump?
Groyper: I’m a supporter of some of his policies.
Kirk: Okay, fair enough, that’s fine. So, how do you get Republicans to hold their promises. I love civic action. I love the fact that you guys are here. The booing? Whatever, you guys have a right to do that, I love the fact you guys patiently wait in line. I hope you guys go to the next townhall for your congressman and have that same kind of energy, that same kind of vim and vigor, because they’re the ones going to D.C. that are betraying, right? I think that’s fair … I agree generally that we’ve been betrayed. We were promised a wall … We’ve been betrayed by borrowing a trillion dollars … Boy, if a congressman had to answer these questions…
He goes on with that for a while. The “rambling man” technique in action.
But then he asks him to repeat the part about Israel…
Groyper: I want to ask you why the only policy the Republicans have stood by is a devotion and an allegiance to Israel?
Kirk: So let me ask you a question: if that was true, why didn’t George W. Bush move the embassy to Jerusalem? If that was true, why didn’t H.W. Bush move the embassy to Jerusalem? If that was true, why didn’t George W. Bush recognize the Golan Heights? If that was true did George W. Bush – why did he do nothing when the Israeli government sacrificed Gaza? If what you’re saying is true, why is President Trump, who had no official fund raising apparatus leading up to the election and was a billionaire from New York who sees things as they are and defies conventional wisdom, why is he the most pro-Israel president in American history? What’s your theory about that? I want to hear your theory. Why do you think Trump is pro-Israel?
Groyper: Because the vast majority of the big money donors are Jewish.
Kirk: Wow. So what you’re saying is that you think Trump is a sellout. That’s what you’re saying?
Groyper: All Republicans are sellouts in terms of Israel.
Kirk: Okay, so you think President Trump is a sellout. I think he’s a patriot … thanks for being here, next question.
This bit of pilpul was his finest moment.
Again, these are new talking points. Flipping it around that you are anti-Trump if you are anti-immigration or anti-Israel is not something he had the sense to do before Tuesday.
Firstly, Trump isn’t really the most pro-Israel President. George W. Bush and his father both invaded Iraq for the sake of Israel. The second invasion of Iraq lasted an entire decade.
Trump has pulled the CIA ISIS funding in Syria, keeping Assad in power, and has thus far refused the calls to bomb Iran.
He’s nowhere on the level of either Bush, or Obama, all of whom did many wars and bombings for Israel.
Furthermore, why has Trump done the embassy and the Golan Heights thing? Well, according to all leaks, it’s because he thought that would make American Jews persecute him less. That is what he meant when he came out a couple months ago and spent a week talking about how “Jews who are Democrats are disloyal to Israel.” What he meant is that they don’t appreciate all that he’s done for Israel. And he thought they would have appreciated it.
So that’s more than anyone can spit out all at once and make it coherent when Charlie Kirk is basically accusing you of being a traitor to America… for not supporting Israel.
9.) Ashley St. Clair – What About Her?
An e-girl for Fuentes!
E-Girl: What I wanted to ask you about is your recent firing of Ashley St. Clair? She was one of your ambassadors and she was fired simply because she took a photo with the host of America First, Nick Fuentes. He’s a very vocal critic –
Charlie Kirk: Can I ask you a question?
E-Girl: Can I finish the question first? He’s a very vocal critic of your organization and I wanted to ask you, don’t you think this is kinda contradictory to free speech? Don’t you think this sends a message to all the other members of Turning Point that if they engage with critics they’ll get the same treatment that Ashley did?
Kirk: So if I was against free speech, why did I just give you the microphone? If I was against free speech, why did I just answer questions all night? Let me answer the question.
He then said that he couldn’t have fired Ashley, because she never worked for him.
And again said he must support free speech because he’s taking questions. Now, after three weeks, he’s finally taking questions and trying to answer them with these long rambling things that don’t make any sense.
And he’s taking questions without filming these very expensive events, by the way. And while trying to prevent people from filming them.
It doesn’t matter. We overwhelmed him, we booed, we were all of the questioners. Tomorrow it will be the same in North Carolina, then he’s off the tour and I don’t think he’s going to be going on tour again.
This was a big win, again.
He’s trying to pull himself back up after the Sunday fiasco, and he’s been coached since OSU. But he caved. He had to cave. But you can’t just cave to opponents you’re saying are so far below you that you can’t talk to them, ever.
After getting smeared, slandered & defamed all week — Nick Fuentes fans absolutely smashed at the TPUSA event today, won over the crowd & even got Charlie to change his stance on immigration.
If they’re so horrible, why is Charlie caving to their stance?
You played yourself.
— An0maly (@LegendaryEnergy) November 13, 2019
If we were truly the unserious trolls or bigots that TPUSA has tried to portray us as, Kirk wouldn’t be conceding major positions like this. His retreat was a tacit admission that we were completely justified in attacking his Radical Immigration ideas as “America Last.”
— Nicholas J. Fuentes (@NickJFuentes) November 13, 2019
And we’re just getting started.